Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2005 6:18:57 AM
I am very close to only HAVING to refuel every other week!
40 mile / day commute.
15 gallon tank = 420 miles!
Close, but still too close.
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2005 6:15:00 AM
Still working toward 30mpg...
I upped the acetone doseage. Here's the highest mileage yet, but cannot tell if it is the exhaust leak or the acetone increase. I plan on holding 1.5 oz for the current tank, then upping to 2 oz / 5 gal.
Here's the stats to date:
27.5 MPG - Premium with "Outlaw" additive.
26.5 MPG - Regular with Acetone (1oz/5gal) & Sta-bil (1oz/5 gal).
(Knocks on regular - Returning to Prem.)
27.66 MPG - Premium with Acetone (1oz / 5 gal) & Sta-bil (1oz/5 gal).
27.23 MPG - Premium with Acetone (1oz / 5 gal)
26.69 - Prem w/ Acetone (1oz/5gal) - Started to use A/C
26.07 - Prem w/ Acetone (1oz/5gal) - A/C high useage, Abusive driving
26.02 - Prem w/ Acetone (1oz/5gal) - A/C high useage
28.09 - Prem w/ Acetone (1.5oz/5gal) - A/C high useage, Exhaust leak.
Vehicle info:
1995 Mazda MX-6 LS V6 2.5L, 103,203 mi.
EPA: 22/26 mpg
Oil: dino, WalMart "SuperTech" 10W-30
Filter: PureOne
Air Intake: OEM
Tires: Toyo Proxes 4
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2005 6:40:29 AM
I still need to post from home once so I have the MX's records...
I'm upping the acetone dose to 1.5 oz/5 gal. for a couple of tanks, since mileage dropped a bit over the last few. We'll see if it was driving habits + A/C or acetone deprivation.
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 16, 2005 9:48:09 AM
Also, an oddity on my acetone tests... The MX is slowly losing mileage. It's just a hair over 26 Mpg on the last tank. I did cut back to 1oz/10gal on the acetone, and driving style would have to be termed as "abusive" though. This tank I've been kinder, but still with 1oz/10gal.
I've got to remember to post when I'm near my records so y'all can see what I'm seeing.
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 16, 2005 8:29:59 AM
welder3,
How much acetone were you adding? Acetone's blending octane rating is 150, but the concentrations listed in here are .3% to .6%, not enough to affect octane. The current theory of operation is that acetone helps the gasoline vaporize faster / more completely by lowering its surface tension.
Also, I thought cars before (1974?) do not require any emmissions control equipment. I may have the exact year wrong, but older cars are not required to have ANY smog controls. Of course, you then have carbuerators, ignition timing points, and other cantankerous components to contend with.
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welder3
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Ontario
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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2005 11:11:18 PM
gas mileage; in the 1970's we used acetone in the gas to improve the octane rating and increased fuel burn across the top of the piston in the compression-power stroke. if you had a holley with viton needle and seats you had to change them out for steel needle and seats. you should check with someone smarter than i to see if the acetone will bother the seals and material in the fuel injectors. fuel injection (especially one injector per cylinder) and sensors as are now on late model cars is the greatest thing since sliced bread, i dont think i would change screwing anything up just for that. you dont know how lucky you are with this latest smog control equipment on new cars compared to cars made in the 1970 when you had to work on them steady to keep them running fine. dont play with this equipment it is not worth it.
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sportscars
Veteran Author
Texas
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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2005 10:38:49 PM
Please dont post about topics in which you are ignorant (lacking information).
Most, if not all, gas treatments contain acetone in higher quantities than what is being suggested here. If STP, Valvoline and the others are still in business selling acetone based products then I will conclude that a 3% mixture of acetone to gas isnt going to damage my engine.
If you drive a new car you probably wont find as much benefit as an older car will.
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EasyMPG
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Ontario
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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2005 1:17:56 AM
If you are leery of engine failure in your $20k car, then you will use acetone.
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Houckster
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2005 12:31:51 AM
I tried it on a $25K truck. It works.
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1ouch1
Sophomore Author
Lexington
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Message Posted: Jun 3, 2005 9:12:24 PM
NEVER HEARD OF THIS BUT A LITTLE LEARY TO TRY ON A $20K CAR???
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 3, 2005 7:09:45 AM
racer3,
which?
If E-check, definitely.
If acetone, aren't scams supposed to be designed to make money?
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racer3
Champion Author
New York
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Message Posted: Jun 2, 2005 11:51:07 AM
scam
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Cloakstar
Champion Author
Dayton
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Message Posted: Jun 2, 2005 11:47:32 AM
That poor GMC may also need a tune up or engine rebuild.
In a little, yappy voice: "E-check prevents pollution!" >SMACK!< thud.
...
Even at $20 every two years, E-check is overpriced, eh?
So many things are so much more effective at reducing pollution, but it does approach being a reasonable small-scale welfare system.
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cloverdale
Sophomore Author
Lexington
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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2005 3:11:31 PM
Thanks for the info!
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EasyMPG
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Ontario
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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2005 3:09:43 PM
In the last two months of my records I've notice a 15% improvement in my fuel economy, so that works out to for each $1 in acetone I use I save roughly $10 in gasoline. I just need to find cheaper acetone locally.
Just remember that until your engine gets decarbonized, you may notice a decrease in fuel economy for possibly 3 tankfuls of fuel. If you happen to own a vehicle with high mileage. It also helps on computer controlled cars to pull the fuse to the computer for 15 minutes or more to reset the computer's parameters.
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PTCruiserGT
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Houston
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Message Posted: May 31, 2005 1:28:23 PM
BoguSoft wrote: I've used it for the last 3 tanks in my PT and there is definitely some change using 4 Oz to 14 gal, the jury is out and I'm still testing. I have seen in the logbook about a 2MPG increase over the last 1000 KM. I'm going to try different amounts of Acetone and like the others I'll report more later on.
And I was wondering about that update and also my details on your PT. I plan to try Acetone as soon as I feel like I've got a good baseline.
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: May 31, 2005 7:19:57 AM
With the sometimes mixed results that have been published, I wonder if the gas companies just don't believe it will work consistently enough to convince people to pay the extra for it?
Since too much acetone lowers fuel economy, and as even the staunchest proponents are quick to point out, this can be a drastically different concentration car to car, there may be somewhat reasonable justification for fuel companyies to not make acetone a generic part of their blend. A low quantity, though, say 1 part per 1000 (2/3 oz per 5 gal) would appear to be almost universally helpful. At the very least, it could probably replace the current detergents.
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SLU2
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Philadelphia
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Message Posted: May 31, 2005 1:05:40 AM
Interesting Article, Thanks...
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PTCruiserGT
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Houston
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Message Posted: May 30, 2005 2:06:34 PM
After reading the article at http://www.lubedev.com/articles/additive.htm I will be trying it as soon as I have my baseline.
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FSTASNTZ
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Raleigh
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Message Posted: May 30, 2005 12:29:25 AM
Use it in my mini van, and seems to get me another 1.5-2mpg
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Houckster
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Atlanta
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Message Posted: May 29, 2005 2:00:01 AM
BLUEBIRD1's comment points out an important issue. Any true improvement in the fuel by an additive is going to have a beneficial effect. Understanding what that effect is can be worthwhile.
Generally, people who follow the OEM recommendations for maintaining their cars will see a slow but sure deterioration of their mileage as deposits build up in the engine. This is one of the reasons, the Top-Tier gasoline standard which increases the level of detergents in the gas has been implemented.
The important thing is that many people accept the mileage they are currently getting as the appropriate mileage for the engine unless it has dropped precipitously. When their mechanic recommends a fuel injector cleaning or some other procedure and their mileage goes back up, they think the procedure increased their mileage. It didn't really, the procedure restored lost mileage.
This is one reason why keeping fuel consumption records is so important. It is also important to compare mileage against the EPA ratings for the engine as another means of putting fuel consumption into perspective.
Acetone, as Bluebird1 notes, probably has restorative powers. It helps remove deposits and this will mean that gas mileage will go up but if this is all it does, it won't truely improve the engine's natural mileage and that's what folks like me are claiming.
Because acetone reduces the surface tension of the fuel, the fuel mixes with the air much more completely leading to a better quality burn. The engine will be a bit stronger as a result. Consequently, to get the necessary power for something like merging onto the expressway, the engine will use less fuel because the fuel it burns is more effectively used. That's where the true fuel consumption reduction is.
Those who begin using acetone and who have built-up carbon deposits in the engine and water in the fuel system will not see improvements right away. Acetone helps purge water from fuel systems as well as remove deposits but these are side benefits that will lead to true improvements in mileage in time. Time, I'd say for some people will be 3-4 tankfuls.
Enough acetone to see if it will be beneficial for your car can be purchased at your local Walgreen's for about $2.50 per bottle. It's in the fingernail polish section.
For those new to the acetone discussion: The starting treat rate is 2 oz. per 10 gallons but this can be increased up to about 6 oz. per 10 gallons and it will not harm any fuel system components. JUST DON'T GET IT ON YOUR PAINT. Get a fuel tank funnel at your local auto parts store.
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bluebird1
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Toronto
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Message Posted: May 29, 2005 12:10:09 AM
I don't think gas additives will void warranties (unless specifically in the small print), otherwise all gas co's would have been sued.
As for Acetone, I just started using it in both vehicles... mpg went up but checking if its because its in the gas or whether it cleaned by lines/injectors better than the other additives I've tried.
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PTCruiserGT
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Houston
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Message Posted: May 28, 2005 11:48:05 PM
Will it void warranty on my new car?
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: May 26, 2005 7:22:54 AM
Cool link, gnzap.
Also referenced: www/lubedev.com
I'll have to remember to try (2x)/(/2) concentrations to estimate my location on the LaPointe curve.
Of course, that means I have to baseline, also... dough!
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scion63
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Los Angeles
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Message Posted: May 25, 2005 1:03:21 PM
I'm trying it in my 2nd tankful now and have not seen a noticeable difference yet...
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vw49
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Virginia
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Message Posted: May 25, 2005 11:32:30 AM
no, my cars are still under warranty so I don't mess with additives
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bluebird1
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Toronto
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Message Posted: May 25, 2005 11:18:28 AM
Update on previous post. I tried it for 2 tankfuls in my car. Mileage went up 2 & 3 mpg respectively- all city driving(& car seems to be running smoother/ lighter colour tailpipe etc). I ran twice without and still getting the better mileage. Now on third tank without & planning to try it on my mini-van. It appears to be a better fuel cleaner than any of the injector cleaners I've been using (& cheaper than them). Even if I don't use it every tank, will be using it once a month as replacement fuel injector cleaner to combat the lower detergent regular gas I've been using.
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Cloakstar
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Dayton
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Message Posted: May 25, 2005 6:29:06 AM
I'm going for 30 MPG right now (+10%). Now that things are holding so steady, I regret having an additive in that first observed tank. Like I said, holding this mix to see what happens.
Updated MPG:
27.5 MPG - Premium with "Outlaw" additive.
26.5 MPG - Regular with Acetone (1oz/5gal) & Sta-bil (1oz/5 gal).
(Knocks on regular - Returning to Prem.)
27.66 MPG - Premium with Acetone (1oz / 5 gal) & Sta-bil (1oz/5 gal).
27.26 MPG - Premium with Acetone (1oz / 5 gal)
Vehicle info:
1995 Mazda MX-6 LS V6 2.5L, 103,203 mi.
EPA: 22/26 mpg
Oil: dino, WalMart "SuperTech" 10W-30
Filter: PureOne
Air Intake: OEM
Tires: Toyo Proxes 4
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Cloakstar
Champion Author
Dayton
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Message Posted: May 20, 2005 6:34:52 AM
Oh... my mix will be changing for the next reading because I finally ran out of Sta-Bil.
So far, I think I'm doing better... 180+ miles when the needle hit the 1/2 tank mark. I think I was closer to below 170 last time I hit 1/2 tank. We'll see. I'll remember next tank, anyway! :o)
Gas prices just rose, so I think I'll wait 'til next week to fuel up.
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sportscars
Veteran Author
Texas
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Message Posted: May 19, 2005 9:09:53 PM
Added cost? Acetone costs about $10 per gallon which is about $.07 per ounce ($10.00/128). I use 7oz per tank, so that is $.49 extra per tank of gas. If I get 1 mpg increase, say 17 instead of 16, I get an extra 24 miles per tank. If gas costs 1.95 per gallon I save $2.75 minus the .49 or $2.26 per fill up. Thats with only a 1 mpg difference (about 6% using the above numbers). Of course depending on your actual mileage, your savings could be MUCH greater.
[Edited by: sportscars at 5/19/2005 9:10:46 PM EST]
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tobolski
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Indianapolis
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Message Posted: May 19, 2005 7:10:05 PM
The added cost does not seem to make it a value proposition.
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UP-Skier
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Twin Cities
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Message Posted: May 19, 2005 7:01:58 PM
I going to give it a try.
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Cloakstar
Champion Author
Dayton
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Message Posted: May 19, 2005 12:30:24 PM
Vehicle info:
1995 Mazda MX-6 LS V6 2.5L, c. 104,000 mi.
EPA: 22/26 mpg
Oil: dino, WalMart "SuperTech" 10W-30
Filter: PureOne
Air Intake: OEM
Tires: Toyo Proxes 4
Some preliminary mpg readings:
27.5 MPG - Premium with "Outlaw"
26.5 MPG - Regular with Acetone (1oz/5gal) & Sta-bil (1oz/5 gal).
(I bought the latter for the graduated container. Also, I started to knock a bit testing regular. 9.2:1 compression + spark advance = must use high octane...grrr...)
27.66 MPG - Premium with Acetone (1oz / 5 gal) & Sta-bil (1oz/5 gal).
I'm holding this mix for a few tanks to see the overall results, but they look promising.
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coiler
Champion Author
Vancouver
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Message Posted: May 16, 2005 11:28:02 PM
40
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sportscars
Veteran Author
Texas
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Message Posted: May 16, 2005 10:41:13 PM
Any new info?
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Cloakstar
Champion Author
Dayton
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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2005 12:58:34 PM
gonna start after this tank of gas gives me a baseline.
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FieroGT
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Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2005 4:41:58 PM
Nope and don't drink it either.
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bluebird1
Champion Author
Toronto
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2005 4:12:31 PM
I have been using fuel injector cleaner now for 2 yrs, not because I believe it will clean dirty injectors but to extend period of maintenance on them (it seems to have worked). It also compensates somewhat for the less additives in reg. fuel (& the discount brands I partake in now).
Plan to try acetone instead, if can help with this & better combustion/MPG why not.
Will post experience with this...but will wait until May when know summer gas is out for some time.
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dlorian
Rookie Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2005 2:12:31 PM
Well it looks like something positive can come out of everyones rage against the oil companies and their deceptive marketing of products. Check out this site...
http://quackoil.blogspot.com/
I think is does a good job clueing in as to what things are really made of, and how to maximize your the cash in your wallet.
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Houckster
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Atlanta
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2005 12:49:10 PM
Sometimes it will take several tanks of fuel before mileage starts to go up. Acetone helps remove water from the fuel system and a higher concentration may be needed in the presence of alcohol-type fuels. Those using E-10 might profitably go up to 4 oz. per 10 gallons or even more. Acetone also helps remove carbon deposits which depress fuel mileage too.
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Cloakstar
Champion Author
Dayton
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2005 1:51:47 PM
Hey, guys.
I'd like to get some thoughtful input on a post I found in this forum.
Check out the inappropriately-named "hydrogen fuel cell" post by MRBuick.
Acetone seems to work by helping the fuel vaporize more effectively.
If this thing works, I think it does so by accelerating combustion:
http://www.savefuel.ca/members/904335/hydrogen.htm
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dlorian
Rookie Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2005 1:45:51 AM
Naw...lol
This is what happens with us mensa insomniacs, are brains never shut down.
:D
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RedCruiser
Champion Author
Orlando
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2005 1:41:13 AM
dlorian, you've been inhaling too much acetone!
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dlorian
Rookie Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2005 1:11:21 AM
I'm writing this article today to bust the myth on alot of common products as a way to show that just because a big company has done market research, it doesn't mean its an economical product.
If you still have hesitations about acetone, here are some fine examples on how the sheet has been pulled over your head.
Pennzoil Higher Mileage Radiator Flush
Water 007732-18-5 95-99
Thats expensive water...
LIST PRICE : $11.24 YOUR PRICE : $7.49
------------
Radiator Restorer Sealer/Conditioner
100% Nitric Acid
--------
Castrol GTX Motor Oil SAE 10W-40W
MSDS: trade secret(2ehn)000000-00-8 10-30
Petroleum basestocks 000000-32-2 60-100
-----
side note:
It is rare to find a synthetic oil manufacturer that uses state of the art polyester based stocks. These ultimate base stocks are the basis of jet engine lubricants.
Canola oil with an optimized additive package was found to provide overall comparable performance to the synthetic fluid (motor Oil).
-----
Valvoline All Climate Lubricating Oil 5W30
Detergent/Dispersant 000000-02-4 6-16
Aliphatic petroleum distillate 000000-46-2 83-93
Dialkyl(C1-C14)dithiophosphoric acid, zinc salt 068649-42-3 1.1
Zinc used as an anti-corrosive agent, magnesium is another common one.
The detergent used is also found in:
100% Lysol Disinfectant All Purpose Cleaner, Lemon
So hmmm motor oil 5w30 can be made with Lysol Cleaner (lemon)
and silicon lubricant, and if you want the anti-corrosive agent, shave the coating off your 1 penny and mix it in.
-----
Ever wonder what is in JP5 Jet fuel?
100% Aliphatic petroleum distillate 008008-20-6
or more commonly known as Kerosene, or more expensivly labled under marine diesel.
Also makes 99% of Gumout Emissions Reducer that sells for as high as $20 per bottle (under many different names), also marketed to pass emmisions in an 8 ounce bottle, most expensive kerosene I have ever seen. [Ranks right up there with water]
RXP also reduces emmisions their bottle is $6.99 for 2 ounces and contains 100% Methyl Acetate, or commonly known as lock deicer that sells for $0.49 for 8 ounces.
------
Instead of complaining on here that acetone eats your car, even though it mixes with the gas at around 50 parts per million (ppm). Why not question why when you go for an oil change that a hefty portion of your oil is lysol
or nitric acid. Then think to your self hmmm If Acetone really is bad for my gas, why is Kerosene any better, because everyone tells you that kerosene is bad for gasoline motors.
--
Well I'm off to bed, but first I'm going to brush my teeth with, Red Devil Garage and Driveway Cleaner. errr, Arm and Hammer Toothpaste. Same thing really.
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EasyMPG
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2005 12:11:35 AM
With my experience with acetone, that Duralube® Fuel System Treatment contains acetone.
More mileage.
More power.
Smoother engine operation.
Cleaner emissions.
Longer engine life.
Like a cheerleader I say "Bring it on!"
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dlorian
Rookie Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2005 10:56:52 PM
Hey just wanted to add something that I just found out today. STP products that say they are made with jet fuel contain acetone and kerosene. I'm sure that the plastic container their product comes in is not made out of the same plastic that your cars plastic fuel parts are....Psych...April fools. Most petro and solvents are stored in HDPE, as its a minimum requirement by many agencies including the epa.
Now consider this, if their chemical is only 12 ounces, and requires special plastic, what happens when you add 12 ounces of what ever unknown chemical those big boys use into a tank that sloshes almost 2000 ounces of gasoline, hmmm do you think those parts will still get eaten? Now imagine the same scenario with 2 ounces of acetone to 2000 ounces of gasoline, you would probably do more damage with 2 ounces of urine, before acetone.
And for those of you who are still unsure, goto the grocery store and look at the acetone free nail polish removers they use methyl acetate. Funny its the same chemical RXP uses in their fuel additive and they recommend that you use 1 ounce per 10 gallons, and they want $6 per ounce.
Just remember someone once said, "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance!" But I figure if you are too lazy to look up chemistry, you probably wont look up the quote either.
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aristo1963
Rookie Author
Bridgeport
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2005 2:21:11 AM
chad the rule of thumb is if the mileage goes down a bit use a little less.make sure you start at 2ounces per 10 gallons of gas.if it goes down try 1.5 ounces ect...
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Houckster
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2005 12:43:32 PM
ThurstyTruck wrote: I suppose it's okay if you really hate what drive. Speaking as someone who knows nothing about chemistry I'm suspicious of everything that eats concrete. I don't think I'd put it in my engine unless someone can seriously explain the magical chemical reaction.
Concrete can also be "eaten" by gasoline if it's poor quality concrete. Acetone is less corrosive than gasoline or ethanol. It is used by women (and maybe some guys but we won't talk about them) to remove fingernail polish.
Go back and read more of the posts. There are quite a few people who have used acetone in their fuel without the slightest problem. I've been doing so for about 6 months and I love my truck.
[Edited by: Houckster at 4/17/2005 12:41:27 PM EST]
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kc5oh
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Philadelphia
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2005 12:04:47 AM
I was skeptical but then I figured "what the hell". My car's got a buttload of miles on it anyway. So I tried it and it worked. I bought a gallon of acetone from Lowe's and a turkey baster syringe from Acme and started adding the 2 oz per 10 gallons. I added the acetone to the tank before I refuel.
In about three week it started showing. I went from getting 26 mpg to 29 mpg in my Grand Am. It doesn't seem like a big jump but it adds up. Especially since I drive 60+ miles a day.
The car also drives a little smoother and accelerates a little easier. Not a huge diffrence in power but noticeable. Try it.
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Ray
Veteran Author
Toronto
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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2005 11:30:52 PM
If you inhale deeply, it'll make it seem like you're getting better mileage.
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